1. Quote one line/passage OR note note one image from within Chap 13-18 that feels imp’t to the text and write a paragraph explaining why. (Note page #.)
2. What has this book left you thinking about? Explain. End your post w/ a question.
3. Also, reply to at least one student's post.
3. Also, reply to at least one student's post.
“‘His beard, earlocks, his clothes, his fringes – all this he will retain in graduate school?’
ReplyDelete‘I don’t know, abba. We never talked about it.’
‘Reuven, how will Danny become a psychologist while looking like a Hasid?’
I didn’t know what to say.” (p. 252)
I feel that this is a hugely important part to the text. This is a conversation between Reuven and his father on the topic of Danny’s decision to abandon his inherited rabbinic position and become a psychologist instead. In Danny’s community, this would have been an almost unheard of occurrence. Integrating into the world outside of Hasidism would mean making sacrifices. In this case, Danny would have to shave off his beard and earlocks, both of which he has never kept for as long as they have grown. Reuven had never thought to ask Danny about the parting with his hair, because Reuven had never known Danny without them. The earlocks and beard are fundamental parts of Danny’s religion, and getting rid of them would be dishonorable, especially in the eyes of his father. Ridding himself of these particular expressions of his devoutness would mean that there is no going back to his old life. But because Danny has been determined for so long to do something other than be a rabbi, he had some incentive that covered up the guilt that he may have felt in departing from his family’s wishes.
Overall, this book has left me thinking about the lengths to which people are willing to go for their religion. I saw, especially in Danny’s Hasidic community that everything revolved around day to day practices, such as Shabbat and Talmud. I was very surprised that children such as Danny and Reuven were willing to participate in these activities to such an extent that they were barely allowed to do other things that most kids take for granted, such as playing together or simply doing nothing. I feel like Danny, most of all, had every single moment of his life devoted to observing his Hasidic Judaism, except of course the time that he would spend in the library, reading works by Freud and others. Even in college, most of Danny and Reuven’s classes were devoted somehow to the study of Judaism. Then on Shabbat afternoons, Reuven would return home and study Talmud with his father. However, since Reuven and his father had been studying Talmud for years, I am astounded that they still have more of it to cover and interpret. As is seen in Danny, he wanted to escape from the world of constant and unrelenting religion that was pushed on him no doubt because his father was the rabbi of his community. I wonder, how difficult is it for people nowadays to break free of their religion to start a new life, and what do they feel?
I think that your point about religion is interesting. Where we live we do not get to see a lot of serious religion. I find religion very interesting and I find it amazing that people could be that devoted to something. I could not imagine being that devoted. But I guess it was the way they were raised. I think that it would be incredibly hard to leave your religion and start a new life. I think that because of the way Danny way raised with his fathers unrelenting studies and knowing that one day he would have to take his place he became overwhelmed with it. That is why he wanted to leave. If you get pushed too hard you won’t want to do whatever you are being pushed to do. I don’t think that Reb Saunders realized that and that with his Talmud sessions and silence it actually scared Danny way from taking his place.
DeleteI agree with what you have to say about everything seeming to be centered around religion. Except for in certain places now this is much less frequent. For example, when I was visiting a friend in Arizona she lived on a Kibbutz (kind of like a Jewish co-op house) and went to a Jewish school. It was really weird for me because even though I was two years older than her I was unmeasurably farther behind in my studies than her. In some ways religion is important to me, but in most ways it does not take part in my day to day life. I think it’s interesting that there was a time and place where people lived like Danny and Reuven, studying everyday at school, home, library, etc. even after it seemed like a document was totally reviewed they would keep going (as you mentioned with the Talmud). I wonder what events made it so this is much less prevalent, at least from what I know, in the U.S. Even if some people were this religious, especially in the Upper Valley, they wouldn’t have a chance to have religious relationships with other people such of those mentioned in this book, Jewish schools, colleges, baseball leagues, multiples synagogues, and people who actually obeyed the commandments of shabbat and didn’t drive or do any work, (like the scene earlier in the book where they are all walking past each other) etc.
ReplyDeleteWhoops this was supposed to be a comment on Noah's post.. I don't know why it showed up as its own thing. SORRY!
Delete“A man must fill his life with meaning, meaning is not automatically given to life. It is hard work to fill one’s life with meaning.” p. 217
ReplyDeleteThis is something that Reuven’s dad says to him when he is speaking about death. I think that this line conveys an underlying theme in the book. Everything in the book is about meaning. Danny doesn’t want to take his fathers place because he feels he is not meant to. Danny’s father teaches him with silence because he thinks it is the only way that Danny will be able to something meaningful. He thought that because Danny was so smart that he would not be able to feel for other people. Reb Saunders life is all about meaning. He feels that his meaning in life is to devote himself, his family and community to their religion and make sure that they understand it. I think that it is interesting that there is so much discussion on the Talmud in this book and it’s meaning of certain passages, that also connects to an underlying theme of meaningfulness. Everyone in the book works so hard to search for meaning, I think that this quote is very important to the text.
This book left me thinking about silence. There is so much silence in the book. Reb Saunders raises Danny with silence, because he wants him to “have a soul.” Danny is also forced to not speak to Reuven for two years. I think that it is strange to not speak to people, my family has always been very open with each other and I have been taught that speaking to people is the way to learn, about yourself, and others. Reuven thinks, “Silence is ugly, it was black, it leered, it was cancerous, it was death ( p 235).” Danny says, “You can listen to silence (p 267)” and that you can learn from it. Reb Saunders feels that it was important to raise Danny that way. I could not imagine my father or mother not speaking to me. But I can also understand how it might work. If a parent never spoke to you then you would have to learn for yourself, you might learn more by looking into yourself then looking up to your parent. I think that silence can be cruel, and frightening and that is why Reuven does not like it, but I also think that silence can be a good thing. I do not agree with the way the Reb Saunders raised Danny but I do believe that there is an importance to silence. I wonder how raising a child in silence could change how they would be?
Nilla, I like how you said that this book left you thinking about silence. As you said, there are many instances in the story where there is a lot of silence between people. However, I don't think that it was ever the right decision. I question Reb Saunders' judgement when he decided to raise Danny this way. It seems almost irresponsible, in a way that you never truly get to raise your kid. I also don't understand why Danny says that he would raise his children in silence, just like he was. Maybe that is because silence is the only way he has ever been raised, and therefore, it only seems normal. I think being raised in silence definitely makes one more independent, but it also may make people more lonely, which is possibly why Danny sought out Reuven as a friend.
DeleteSilence, for me, is often uncomfortable. I like that this book made you think about silence because there was quite a lot of it. I also can not imagine having this much silence in my life. I think I would go insane. I wonder if Reb Saunders ever considered what other effects raising his son in silence might have. It seems like silence could make a strong person stronger, but if Danny not a strong person, what might have happened to him? Would his father have stopped the silence if he saw his son was falling apart?
DeleteSilence is pretty ongoing in this book. When I got towards the end I didn't even realize all of the silence going on. It's weird how a book can leave you thinking about silence. Often times a book is leaving you thinking about what happens next, or what happened to someone, but this book had a different twist. I enjoyed it.
DeleteAfter Reuven's dad said that quote I thought he was going to die. I thought he knew his time was short so he was trying to finish what he had started. I was surprised when his dad did not die. I also think what you said about the book having a lot of silence was very true. My family is also pretty open and until the last chapter I didn't understand why Danny's father did not talk to him. I think talking helps me learn I don't know what I would do if my parents did not talk to me.
Delete1.“‘Reuven,’ I want you to listen carefully to what I will tell you now.’ He had said: Reuven. His eyes had said: Danny.’” (p. 263)
ReplyDeleteI think this is really important because it perfectly shows the relationship between the three characters in this scene, and really, main characters, (Reuven, Danny and Reb Saunders.) As Reb Saunders explains throughout this chapter, and the boys come to realize, throughout the past through years of their friendship Reuven had become an outlet for the father- son relationship. He was there to guide and talk to Danny when his father couldn’t, and when he didn’t wish to speak to him (as part of his raising of his son) Reuven would be there to be a bridge for this relationship. As Nilla mentioned silence is definitely a theme in this book with both father and son, and friends from opposing groups (and disapproving fathers). This is the climax of the book, and the string that ties together the past friendship(s) of silence with their new becomings of communication.
2. This book has got me thinking about boundaries. In this book many lines are drawn, both in the family and in religion. It’s funny how quick people are to assume that everything is just as expected. Like “you were raised just like me,” until, that is you look closer and observe strange behaviors such of that of Danny and his father, where a line was drawn between them. It was like a teacher and student rather than father and son, there was a “professional” type of line between them, no talks of feelings and growing up, just of Talmud, Torah, G-d. Another common mistake is to group all sides of Judaism together, even as a Jew, I personally could not list out all the differences between different sects, but at least I know we don’t all believe the same things. This book really outlined how two people who from a biased and uncultured eye can seem exactly the same, are totally different. It also experimented with which ones could be crossed, and when, as well as why some were there. It leaves me thinking about how often I generalize people or groups together and don’t actually realize all the sections and differences. Also the importance of doing this: What difference does it make to notice these or not? Does it make you a “better person” to know all different denominations of Judaism? Should you be aware of these differences in family? in Religion? etc.
I agree with you about Reuven being a vector between Reb Saunders and Danny. I think that Reb Saunders was well aware that Reuven would be this outlet for the two of them and I think that was part of the reason why he was so willing to let Danny and Reuven be friends in the first place. He knew that Reuven would be introducing all of these new things, like the books, and strengthening Danny's want for knowledge. I honestly was surprised that Reb Saunders allowed their friendship because it was so apparent in the beginning that there were some major differences between the two. I wasn't surprised, however, when Reb Saunders forced Danny to not speak to Reuven during the debate over a Jewish State. Once Reb Saunders removed this band, we could see how desperate he was to have Reuven over again. This was because he needed him to talk to his son. Reb Saunders would constantly ask him to visit, but Reuven would always decline until his father made him go. Once he did, we can see that Reb Saunders was clearly using him to talk to Danny.
Delete“My father himself never talked to me, except when we studied together. He taught me with silence. He taught me to look inside myself, and find my own strength, to walk around inside myself in company with my soul… And it is important to know of pain, he said. It destroys our self-pride, our arrogance, our indifference towards others. It makes us aware of how frail and tiny we are and of how much we must depend upon the Master of the Universe.” (p. 284)
ReplyDeleteI thought that this quote, and section in particular, where Reb Saunders was using Reuven to talk to Danny and explain the silence was important to the book. We finally see why Reb Saunders treated and raised Danny the way he did. It wasn’t the cruel punishment and lack of love that Reuven assumed it was. Instead, it was a method that Reb Saunders used to help his son by allowing him to find his soul. I still struggle to understand how the silence worked even after reading this section. What I was able to pull out of it was that by exposing Danny to the sufferings of the world at a young age would make him realize how not only did he have a good life compared to others, but he would learn to appreciate things that many people take for granted. To me this was kind of like when Reuven first got out of the hospital. During his time there he met many others, including Billy, that changed the way that he perceived life. Reuven himself was faced with the threat of losing his eyesight. The little boy that he met in the hospital, named Billy, was blind and Reuven was able to see how much of an effect this had. When Reuven was able to go home, he started to realize how much he had taken things, like eyesight, for granted. He saw the suffering of others and it made him realize the things that he had and be grateful for them. I think that is what Reb Saunders was trying to do with Danny through the silence. This section also presents the complexity of Reb Saunders’ character and the emotional battles that he has faced his entire life. We are now able to understand why he always cried at the dinner table. We can see that instead of him having both a cruel and caring side, he only has the caring.
This book has left me thinking a lot about the growth of people and the struggle there is to find our own paths in life. Throughout the book we watched the growth of each of the characters in some small way. The three main characters that we saw grow, however, were Reuven, Danny, and Reb Saunders. At the beginning of the book, Reuven was a very closed off, intellectual boy. He was not very accepting of things that he was not familiar with. We see this when he firsts meets Danny and instantly decides that he hates him without knowing a thing about him other than his religion and appearance. As the book went on he began opening his mind to these new and different things and began appreciating life more. I think one of the biggest times that we saw Reuven opening his mind and accepting something that he wasn’t used to was when he first went to meet Reb Saunders. Throughout the book we can also see how Danny changed. In the beginning he was a boy who had a very curious mind but was in a situation where his father and religion prevented him from exploring the knowledge he wanted. As the book progresses, though, we start to see him struggle with a choice. He has to chose between his religion and what he wants to do in life. As we know he ends up fading away from what his father wants and chooses his own path. We get to see this transition throughout the book. We see Reb Saunders change from this almost cruel father to this loving father who only wanted the best for his son. As we can see, the characters changed dramatically through this book. I honestly did not realize how much people can change is such a short period of time. Does we and the people around us change this much?
I agree with you, I think this was an important part of the book. It was very powerful where we learned why Reb Saunders acted and treated Danny the way he did. They also have an emotional moment where we learned how he really felt about Danny. Reb Saunder's silence towards Danny seemed really unnecessary and a little cruel. But we did get to see that he is a caring person and did it out of love for Danny. Your right this is very much like when Reuven got out of the hospital and began to appreciate the simple things in life, such as his eyesight. I also really like what you said about the growth of people and the struggle to find owns path. As well as how we saw it in the characters.
Delete1. "" How will I do this and not lose my son, my precious son whom I love as I love the Master of the Universe Himself? How will I do this and not cause my son, God forbid, to abandon the Master of the Universe and His Commandments?'" (266)
ReplyDeleteI thought this passage was very powerful. I did not like Reb Saunders for many reasons, but one of the most prominent reasons was because of his treatment of Danny. How could a father not speak to his son? Did he hate Danny? Or detest him for some reason? I did not understand it. But in this passage, and most of chapter 17 made me understand Reb Saunders and his method of raising his son. I feel bad for judging him so quickly and dismissing the idea that he might have a reason for his ways and that he might actually love Danny. It really opened up my idea of how people raise their children. I do not agree with what Reb Saunders did, but I understand why he did it and I understand how strong he must have been to see his son in pain and still do what he believed he had to. I respect him much more after this.
2. This book made me think a lot about the role that religion has. Nothing could cause me to stop talking to my best friends for two years. How do parents have this much control over their children? Is it because of the time period, or is it because of their religious devotion? One thing that really struck me was how afraid Danny was of telling his father that he was not going to be a Rabbi. It seems like because Reb Saunders was the Rabbi of their synagog and they did not talk the relationship between Danny and his father were not that of a son and father I have ever known. The relationships in this book seemed rather odd to me and I wonder if this is because of their religious beliefs.
I understand your questions about religion. I thought about those as well, but I don't think it is because they were Jewish, or even because they were very religious Jews. I think the reason that their relationship was so unusual to us is because of the situation. Even though Danny was Reb Saunders' son, he was also a member of the synagogue, which meant that Reb had a lot of control over him. That, in addition to Danny knowing that Reb knew what was best for Danny made it so his father had a lot of control over him. I do believe that the time period had a little bit to do with it as well, but children have been rebelling against their parents forever, even at the time this book was set.
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ReplyDeleteI agree with Clara, this book has also left me to think a lot about religion. I have my own religion to follow, and though I'm not entirely devoted to it, I wouldn't ever let my parents decide for me that I can't talk to my best friend. What would you do if your parents made that decision because of such devotion to a certain religion?
ReplyDelete"A man is born into this world with only a tiny spark of goodness in him. The spark is God, it is the soul; the rest is treasure, it must be nurtured, it must be fanned into flame. It must learn to seek out other sparks, it must dominate the shell. Anything can be a shell, Reuven. Anything. Indifference, laziness, brutality, and genius, Yes, even a great mind can be a shell and choke the spark." (pg 282) I chose this particular part because this is when Reb Saunders begins to explain everything. He explains that his silence towards his soon, Danny, wasn't some punishment (like Reuven assumed it was), or a way to show his lack of love, but it was to show love and so Danny could find himself.
If my parents made that decision for me I wouldn't listen. I would find some way to still be friends with that person. To me Friendship is more important than religion. I also liked when Reb Saunders explained his silence. It made me understand the whole thing better. I also thought it was some sort of punishment, like Reuven thought. Although, I still don't understand what Reb Saunders meant when he said Danny was a kid with no soul and just a mind.
DeleteThe quote that stuck out as important to me was "He was trapped by his beard and earlocks, he said, and there was nothing he could do." (215) Throughout the book we see how Danny is trapped. He has to become a rabbi, but he wants to become a psychologist. He wants to talk to his father, but his father wont talk to him. He has no one to talk to and he is all alone. Once Danny meets Reuven this all changes. For a long time Danny accepted this as his fate. We see him grow and he stops accepting it and starts wanting to change it. I think a lot of this has to do with him meeting Reuven. Danny starts reading about psychology and he learns a lot. Danny changes his fate. His father surprisingly lets him become a psychologist. I thought he wouldn't let him become one. His father even lets him shave his beard and earlocks. When Danny came to Reuven's apartment without his bear and earlocks I thought how he was finally free.
ReplyDeleteThe book left me thinking about how fast frienship grows and changes. Danny and Reuven went from strangers to acquaintances to best friends to strangers again to best friends again. Friendships change so fast and this book really shows that. The book also left me thinking about Danny's relationship with his father and Reuven's relationship with his. They are so different. Danny was jealous of Reuven's relationship with his father for a long time. As the book continuous Danny starts to understand his father. He starts to understand why his father has raised him the way he has. Danny even said that he might raise his own son like his father raised him. At the beginning of the book Danny would never have said that. I'm still surprised that he did. It really shows how much he has learned and grown.
I still don't understand why Danny's father talked to him through Reuven. Why do you think he did this?
Delete"Danny stared at his father. His eyes were wet. He nodded his head slowly. Reb Saunders looked at him. 'You will remain an observer of the Commandments?' he asked softly. Danny Nodded again. Reb Saunders sat back slowly in his chair. And from his lips came a soft, tremulous sigh. He was silent for a moment, his eyes wide, dark, brooding, gazing upon his son. He nodded his head once, as if in acknowledgement of his tortured victory" (pg 287). This is the ending of Reb's explantation just before he leaves the room. During this part we learn why Reb treated both Danny and Reuven the way he did. Reb also apologizes for some of his behavior. I think this was important to the book because it answers many of the questions that came up through out the book and we learned who one of the main characters, Reb Saunders, really was. He opens up to Danny and Reuven giving a thorough explanation to what he was teaching Danny through his behavior. Even though it was negative this is a much softer side of him that we would have never guessed of when he was first intruded. Danny also seemed a little afraid of his father and during this section he is relievd of that. Danny was nervous about telling Reb that he didn't want to become a rabbi and kept it from him. Reb tells him that he knows what Danny plans to do with his life and that he won't stop him. We realize that Reb's silence reflects how much he loves Danny and through it he helped him find himself. Which seems like what he was trying to do the whole time even though the way he did it caused a lot of pain and anguish for Danny.
ReplyDeleteThis book left me thinking about first impressions and how people change because I think it is a very prevalent message through out the entire book. The book made me think of change and first impressions because it was going on through out the story. At the beginning of the book I saw Danny as a stuck up, aggressive, baseball player. But that was just my first impression of him, as I got to understand him, the way that I viewed him changed. This happened again with his father who seemed like an old man that didn't know how to parent but was actually a caring father who just wanted his son to be happy. Reuven was another character that changed especially after his accident, he became more appreciative of things because he came so close to losing them. People around us are always changing whether or not we notice. Should people be aware of others changing and growing or is it just something that happens naturally that we choose to ignore? Also do Reuven and Danny see each other again?
"Then he said softly, 'A father has a right to raise his son in his own way, Reuven.'
ReplyDelete'In that way, papa?'
'Yes. Though I do not care for it at all.'
'What kind of way is that to raise a son?'
'It is, perhaps, the only way to raise a tzaddik.'" (p 289)
This passage is very important to the text, because it shows that even someone who does not condone that way of raising a child understands it. It might not make any sense to someone who does not practice religion in the same way, but for Reb Saunders, he felt that not talking to his son was the only way enable his son to become in touch with his own soul, and to raise him to be a good tzaddik.
After finishing this book, I had a hard time thinking about anything else. It left me thinking about many things, but the one thing that stuck the most was Reb Saunders. He was trying to be the best father he could be. He knew that telling his son not to read would not make a difference, and he was not becoming any more emotional, no matter what texts he read. Yet it still seems a bit unreasonable to only talk to your son about religious matters for most of his young life. Not only was he kind of punishing his son for being so smart, but Reb Saunders himself had to suffer, because he could not talk to his son, let alone to one of the greatest minds in centuries. It makes me think about how people are truly willing to do anything for the good of their children, or at least what they think is good for their children. Yet, I don't think I would be able to do this. Of course I would do anything for my child, but I would have tried to find a different method of teaching emotion, perhaps by telling him/her about it, rather than ignoring him/her. In reality, though, I don't know what I would do if the situation arose. Would I refuse to talk to my son or daughter? Did Reb Saunders make the right decision? Is Danny going to change because he knows now?